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Who was WILLIAM LEWIS- The Independent from Llanfrothen ? |
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FelRh070WLewisBOC.doc 4.8.2002-08-04 This is a broad translation and comments on the paper cutting kindly sent by Angela Owen 1.08.2002 The subject is a question which Bob Owen, Croesor posed on the 10.12.1919 in the paper Herald Gymraeg (or Caernarfon and Denbigh or Rhedegydd). He refers to the following entry, in English, in the baptismal record book of Pendref, Caernarfon. “ Jannet, daughter of William Lewis, carpenter, Llanfrothen by Margaret , his wife, born November the 30th 1788 and baptised December 11th “. BOC reminds us that the Independent movement was a comparatively late development at Penrhyndeudraeth. He wonders whether WL was a down right Independent and not a Methodist, who started the Methodist movement at Caeglas, after all. BOC mentions, in passing, a family relationship between WL , Glaslyn, the late Bryfdir & Rev. D.D.Williams & others and he goes on to detail the life of the above WL. He thinks that he married a local woman and quotes:- “WL, single man married Margaret Lloyd, spinster were married 17.4. 1773 by John Thomas, Rector” and the witnesses were Maurice Isaac & Edward Lewis (his brother). There is then, a list of baptism of the children i.e. Lewis 1773; Margaret 74; Elizabeth 75; Margaret 77; Lowry 78; Griffith 79; Mary 80; Eleanor 82; Griffith 83; Alice 85; David 86; and then Jannet at Pendref, Caernarfon. in 1788. The Llanfrothen records ends in 1787. At the bottom of the paper cutting the print is defective but we can make most of it out as follows:- “WL. died at....”yr.( Odyn?)”.. (there appears a sentence out of context here -‘and/or with the other children who were baptised’-) was buried 1825,in the parish cemetery April 12 ..77..? years old”. “Margaret Lloyd died at Ty Llaeth, Parc Llanfrothen in 1833- the same place as her daughter Elizabeth (Glaslyn’s mother) lived. M.Ll. was buried with her husband February 21 aged 81 years old” BOC states that there was an earlier Elizabeth but she died as a an infant. Elizabeth (Glaslyn’s mother ) was one of WL’s 13 children. “ WL was the son of John Jones Mordecai and Margaret his wife of Tyddyngwyn, he was baptised 7.7.1748. The record of the baptism of his mother , Margaret, is missing but BOC thinks she was the daughter of Richard Lloyd of Ceunant Inn ( Croesor) and clerk. BOC goes on to refer to a George Lewis D.D. as NOT being the Independent minister at Pendref Caernarfon but started a Sunday School at Caernarfon in 1785 and no wonder WL followed him and started a Sunday School at Hafoty circa. 1787 – this was two years before J.R. Jones came to Croesor. BOC asks some questions how did WL. become in contact with the Independent at Caernarfon? Who converted him? Did he remain an Independent? and states that the Methodists had lost a stalwart. He, BOC, would have to rewrite what he had already written about J.R. Jones, Ramoth. There are some observations and questions emanating from the above viz.: - 1. BOC does not fully answer the question which he has asked in the title to the article. There may not be an answer ! There is the possibility of there being two WLs married to two Margarets both from Llanfrothen one a labourer and the other a carpenter. ( see FelRh021 - 5.3.2002) 2. The date stuck on at the top of my copy of the paper cutting is December 10 1919. Should this be 1949 or some other date? As Bryfdir died in 1947 and BOC refers to him as the late Brifdir. When did “Manion o’r mynydd” articles start? I wonder! (Carneddog wrote MoM from ca1915 to 1945) 3. We need to look at a copy of the original newspaper at the archives and also to get the missing bits. 4. We know from the census of 1851 that Elizabeth was aged 53 and living at Ty isaf- thus giving a date of birth of 1798. Her mother would be aged 1798-(1833-81) = 46 when Elizabeth was born. This is old- but not impossible- to be a mother. Elizabeth could of course, be a child of an older “sibling” .A record would be useful. Sheelagh has not been able to find a DoBaptism for Jonnet and Elizabeth. ( John Lewis & Margaret of Caeglas had also a daughter, Jonet, baptised 15.4.1781) Why do we not have a record of the baptism of Elizabeth? She may have been baptised at Caernarfon with the “other” WL. Need now to look beyond the 1786 -1792 range and also at Caernarfon, for Elizabeth’s record. 5. Assume that WL died at yr ‘Odyn’? (this needs checking). If Odyn ( location not too far from Ty Llaeth Y Parc) is the correct PoDeath, we have to ask who was living there with him and his wife Margaret. Had he come back from Caernarfon on the death of his son, David? Remember that WL’s son, David Williams had died four years previously in 1821 and the family had possibly moved from Caeglas. It could be that his widow, Margaret Pritchard, were at yr Odyn in 1825. We know that William Davies, his grandson, was there at Yr Odyn, in 1840 (g.g daughter,. Anne – was born there, on 10.1. 1840 ) 6. Sheelagh has examined the original Herald at Aberystwyth a) she gives the date as 23.2.1948,b) Age 76 when WL died & c) that there is a line missing; could be “yn yr un ardal... “(the same district) RP |
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